In the invective-fest that’s become national political dialog, critics of Dubya have long enjoyed turning the tables on the folks who pilloried Clinton for his draft evasion tactics during Nam, by pointing out that not only did Dubya duck out into the Air National Guard, but he was a crappy pilot who went AWOL a lot.
Heck, I even thought I’d made it the subject of a blog entry before (couldn’t find it, but I did find a reference to it in one about Michael Moore). Plus, I was willing to cut him at least some slack, since he seems to have made a major turnaround in his personal life since the 70s.
Well, looking at the actual record, it may well be that the charge has been trumped up. Both the Boston Globe and the NY Times have looked at the records in question, and a lot of the nastiest allegations (particularly the AWOL ones) haven’t panned out.
[Globe:] Those who trained and flew with Bush, until he gave up flying in April 1972, said he was among the best pilots in the 111th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron. In the 22-month period between the end of his flight training and his move to Alabama, Bush logged numerous hours of duty, well above the minimum requirements for so-called ”weekend warriors.”
Indeed, in the first four years of his six-year commitment, Bush spent the equivalent of 21 months on active duty, including 18 months in flight school. His Democratic opponent, Vice President Al Gore, who enlisted in the Army for two years and spent five months in Vietnam, logged only about a month more active service, since he won an early release from service.
[NY Times:] [R]egulations allowed Guard members to miss duty as long as it was made up within the same quarter. Mr. Bartlett pointed to a document in Mr. Bush’s military records that showed credit for four days of duty ending Nov. 29 and for eight days ending Dec. 14, 1972, and, after he moved back to Houston, on dates in January, April and May. The May dates correlated with orders sent to Mr. Bush at his Houston apartment on April 23, 1973, in which Sgt. Billy B. Lamar told Mr. Bush to report for active duty on May 1-3 and May 8-10. Another document showed that Mr. Bush served at various times from May 29, 1973, through July 30, 1973, a period of time questioned by The Globe.
Not that I expect that to end this particular urban legend. Certainly there may be more to the story than that, but it doesn’t look like Dubya was any more of a slacker than some of his presidential peers.
(via InstaPundit)
Oh, please, Bill Hobbes, quoting the Times? How convenient. Fact of the matter is, the Times article has already been debunked.
Hobbes is full of his own right-wing hatred for anything remotely resembling criticism of the Shrub. The documents prove the Shrub didn’t serve as he was supposed to. Check out South Knox Bubba — the comments section has all of the relevant information.
Oookay, I’ll take a look.
Dave
I’m working of coming up with a list of other info/sites.
The documents that I have seen from the FOIA request seem to support the “where was he” argument.
A list of Sites:
one
two
three
four
five
six
seven
eight
There was one that I came across last week that I can’t find that went into great depth about the “Champagne Squadron”.
Here’s a GIF of the document about his being grounded. He never bothered to clear it up during his final two years of supposed-duty.
http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/grounded.gif
Oh, I should note that he wouldn’t submit to the physical, and the belief is because he would test positive for drugs.
Looking at the SKB post in question, I’d be inclined to give Hobbs a few points on style, but that probably doesn’t count.
Hobbs’ rationale in using a NYT article is that if even so augustly liberal an institution as the Times (which, I gather from your comments, Scott, he usually lambastes) didn’t find enough of a smoking gun to use as a hatchet against Dubya, it’s likely there’s not much there there.
Frankly, what Bush was doing in 1972 (or what Clinton was doing then, for that matter, or Gore) is not of that much interest to me, even if it’s as bad as it sounds — he got into the ANG to duck out of Nam, he was a good pilot, he got into some performance/substance abuse problems, he ducked and deked and found reasons not to have a physical, and finally got an early honorable discharge, at least in part due to his daddy being a Congressman. It’s a terribly old and arguably unfair story, but I’m not sure I’d want anyone digging around in what I was doing in my late 20s, either.
Now, to what extent that makes the present-day half-a-lifetime-later Bush a hypocrite, or someone who has learned some hard lessons in life, or a doofus, I leave as an exercise to the reader.
As Uncle Cecil (link 5 above) says:
Bush’s enemies say all this proves he was a cowardly deserter. Nonsense. He was a pampered rich kid who took advantage. Why wasn’t he called on it in a serious way during the 2000 election? Probably because Democrats figured they’d get Clinton’s draft-dodging thing thrown back at them. Not that it matters. If history judges Bush harshly–and it probably will–it won’t be for screwing up as a young smart aleck, but for getting us into this damn fool war.
And, just to add, I think there are plenty of specific and direct and meaningful reasons to critique Dubya on a policy and performance basis, and I would much rather see them as the grounds for debate in the 2004 election. Assuming the Dems don’t self-destruct before then.
And let me add a couple more notes.
Yes, I brought it up. Certainly there seems to be a lot of evidence about some shady goings-on back in ’72 by Dubya, though most of it is of the “lack of proof” kind. Hobbs may not have made a convicing case that there’s nothing to see here, move along, but I’m not sure the case that there is something to see here is all that powerful, or, even if true, all that significant.
Does Dubya invite this sort of thing by campaigning (directly or indirectly) on his presidential military record? Maybe, though, again, I’m not sure it’s germane — did Clinton’s lack of military service, or the elder Bush’s own record, make either of them better or worse military leaders? If Dubya runs on his ANG record, then fine. If he doesn’t, there are, as I said, a lot more important things to attack him on.
As to the aircraft carrier landing/stunt … I didn’t see it. Was it grandstanding? Sure it was. What was the intended message? I’ve seen a hell of a lot of analysis on that, and none of it is more convincing than any other of it. It certainly seemed to have jazzed the folks on the CVN, and that might have been as much the purpose as anything else. I’m hoping we won’t see that footage spliced into ’04 campaign commercials, though. Unseemly (and, in its own way, as risky as Dukakis going for a tank ride).
Not to change directions to drastically, but since you brought it up….I am fascinated by the dem’s grabbing onto the carrier landing as ammunition. The last that I’ve read, there was a request for the GAO to release costs of the landing. Two incidents during the Slick Willy era come to mind: the haircut at LAX that closed the airport for three hours and flying into Newark that closed the airport for five hours. What were the costs of those incidents? I would think a little more than an arrested carrier landing.
Well, since Clinton got raked over the commentators’ coals for that, I suppose sauce for goose(r) is sauce for the gander.
On the other hand, the CVN serves and goes hither and thither on the President’s request (indirectly, at least), as CinC. The same is not true for civil and commercial aviation.
To me the point is that Dubya got to sashay off into the Texas Air Nat’l Guard at all, jumping the line over thousands of others to do so. Did any sons of rich Republican hawks ever get drafted?
I suspect few sons of rich anyone got drafted; most were able to find a way to get deferments or alternative service.
(Was Representative Bush a hawk during Nam?)
Two problems that I see: the CVN was headed into port at the time the landing was made. I haven’t read or heard that it was diverted to accomodate the president’s wishes.
Civil and commercial aviation traffic was effected by Clinton’s choice of having his haircut at LAX. Many had to be diverted to Ronald Reagan Airport and other airports in the area. Also, the president has powers to have civilian aircraft used for military transport.
Ronald Reagan airport is in DC (“National”); are you thinking of John Wayne (Orange County) (SNA)?
You’re absolutely correct…..John Wanye. I get my Western movie actors a bit confused at times.
Adam
The Lincoln was stopped and turned so that the cameras would have lots of sea to see.
Also the Clinto airpor haircut tying up LAX were just GOP propaganda. Yes the Haircut took place. no it did not stop operations at the airport. The retaction to the Proaganda was buried in small print weeks later…after the damage had been done.
How did I end up here? Dave, you look a little like Michael Savage, but he’s uglier. Regarding Vietnam and John Kerry, I was too young for the draft, but wondered later if the commie symps who were busy trashing the US military effort had ANY understanding of what the North’s victory would and did mean: the slaughter of Thieu’s people, “Re-education” and/or death camps for thousands, destruction of churches and other places of worship, etc. Hanoi Jane has since apologized to vets for giving aid and comfort to the Viet Cong, but has Kerry? What formed the basis of his opposition? Surely he “loathed” the military, a la Bill “The Artful Dodger” Clinton, but did he also cling to the fiction that the Viet Cong would be “kinder and gentler” to the vanquished South once the State Owned and Operated Maoists seized power? (Irony of ironies, “Getting rich is now glorious!” – Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book, Revised Edition)
Well, I think Michael Savage is a jerk, but I’ll take your comment as a compliment …
I suspect Kerry did not give much thought, or have too much concern over what would happen in Viet Nam after the US withdrwal, or the fall of the Southern government. Whether this was because of an inordinate faith in the Hanoi government, or because he just didn’t really care all that much isn’t clear to me. Certainly I haven’t seen anything in his record after the war expressing much concern about the Vietnamese people.
Fonda and and a number of other anti-war activists (Joan Baez comes to mind) have since apologized for letting that particular ball drop.
It’s hard to say whether Kerry, given his service record, loathed the military (if I had to guess, I’d say he loathed the senior command, while feeling more kindly to his comrares in arms. While his record against national defense has been a bit overblown in the past few months, he certainly didn’t hesitate in his post-war Senate testimony, to label both himself and other US soldiers as war criminals (albeit, if an excuse, at the behest of the senior command).
I agree about Savage. His recommended “solution” to the problem of Islamic extremism is to nuke Mecca, among other things. With him you don’t know if it’s hyperbole. In any case, I wouldn’t suppose that Allah is amused…It’s a great thing that Vietnam vets are finally being accorded the honor and respect that was so lacking back when it counted most… As an 8th grader I attended a Vietnam War protest rally in Harrisburg, PA, where the Berrigans were on trial for breaking and entering and destruction of property: pouring pig blood on draft records. It was my first encounter with folks who passionately hated the US and all it stood for. Lots of ranting and raving from the likes of Angela Davis and her ilk. Even then as an ignorant 14 year old I wondered what would happen to the country if hatemongers like these ever acquired real political power …
Angela Davis and the Berrigan’s hate mongers…
*smirk*
oddness abounds.
Near as I can tell, Kerry in the “Winter Soldier” hearings was mainly concerned with what the war had done to him and the other American vets. With obeying orders that made them war criminals.
And SOMETHING worked, because when I went through Air Force basic in ’75 there was a class on illegal orders and what to do about them. I believe that atrocity-avoidance has been part of the training ever since, and that it wasn’t, prior to digging My Lai and the like out of the coverup.
Good point. And such training is a good thing.