Obama v. McCain …. Fight!

Liveblogging the first presidential debate. Will McCain’s folksiness triumph? Will Obama’s oratory shine through? 

C-SPAN … but it’s actually C-SPAN2? Gah! MSNBC.

Entrance. Smiles, everyone.

Eisenhower — security and solvency. Financial recovery plan, first to Obama. Nicely said, but it feels a bit too talking points “get my message out no matter what.” Repeats his points on the plan from recent days. Doesn’t directly hit the question. Looks too serious — almost glowering at times when trying to be serious. Some attacks in there — it’s all about Bush, supported by McCain — shredding regulatoins, trickle down, “fundamentals.”

McCain — sad note about Ted Kennedy in the hospital. Faces the moderator, not the camera. Praising bipartisanship. Not talking about solutions, just about bipartisanship. Defending his going back to DC. House Republicans were excluded, but now they are part of solution? It’s now the end of the beginning? Create jobs, and eliminate dependence on oil.

Bring it back for 5 minutes on the current plan? 

Obama — optimistic, haven’t seen final language. Question … how did we get there (drag back to talking points). Not answering the question. Have to solve the problem, have to intervene, but we need a 21st Century regulatory framework. McCain hopes he (I) will vote for the plan. “I warned about them too!” Responsibility — Eisenhower anecdote. Band of Brothers time. Eisenhower with letter of resignation if Normandy failed. Wanted SEC chair to resign (vs. being fired) — greed is rewarded, lack of accountability is rewarded. I promise accountability.

Direct statements. Obama, yes, we need more responsibility, but not just during a crisis — the economic ideology, Wall St over Main St. Not talking to McCain, but to moderator. “Fundamentals” were strong. Keeps avoiding talking to McCain. Talking well, hitting points. McCain isn’t talking to Obama, either. Fundamental problem with excesses and greed in DC. Need stricter interpretation and consolidation of regulatory agencies? Faith in the American worker — rah, rah, rah! 

Next question. Are there fundamental differences in approach about how to lead out of crisis. McCain, need to get spending under control. Largest increase in govt since Great Society. Earmarking as a gateway drug — out-of-control spending and corruption. Evils of earmarking. DNA of bears in Montana anecdote (does he know what it was for?). Will veto every spending bill. But Obama has asked for $932MM in porkbarrel. 

Obama notes abuse of earmarks. Suspended requests for Illinois. Lobbyists and special interests introducing, though not with him. But they only account for $18bn. McCain proposing $300bn in tax cuts to corps and wealthy. That’s even more important. Rewarding CEOs. Tax cut for 95% of working families — better recipe for economic growth than policies of Bush.

McCain — Obama only suspended porkbarrel once running for president. $932MM is a lot of money. $18bn has tripled in last three years, and it *corrupts* people. Called the “sheriff” in appropriations. Obama not mentioning some $800bn in new spending / programs. Another fundamental difference — cut spending, lower taxes.

Obama interrupts. No, closing loopholes, reducing bad tax breaks, basic coverage health care — and paying for every dime. Obama promises line-item on earmarks — but that’s not enough.  Now finally looking at McCain.

McCain looking at moderator still. Obama — business tax — second-highest in world! Ireland pays 11%. Which is why people are going to Ireland. Want to cut business tax so that business will remain here, and create jobs. And earmarks is more than the $18bn. Senate will be taking up continuing funding resolution — with 2000 (earmarks?). And Obama requested $932MM! Want every family to have $5K tax benefit for health care. Worst thing is to raise taxes for everyone. And Obama’s definition of rich!

Obama – 95% will get a tax cut. And if you make < $250K, you will not see one dime of tax increase. Business taxes on paper are higher here, but loopholes supported by McCain see effective business tax on of the lowest in the world. And people aren’t benefiting from it. And $5K health credit under McCain — he does that by taxing health benefits — your employer has to pay taxes on what they’re contributing. Philosophy of market triumphs.

McCain — energy bill before Senate, festooned with loopholes, oil company breaks, McCain voted against, Obama voted for it. Tax system is to be fundamentally fair and simple. $42k tax charge — Obama says that’s not true. Obama: oil companies will get $4bn breaks under McCain. If we’re giving it to oil companies, other people not getting them. Obama — McCain opposed to energy bill right now because it removes tax breaks for oil

New questoin — the rescue plan. With the $700bn, what will you have to give up to pay for it? Obama — need to delay some things, hard to anticipate what the budget will be next year. Cannot do everything he wants. Some things have to be done. Energy independence (I have a plan, 10 yrs to free from dependence on Middle East). Fix health care system, burden on families — average deductible went up 30% — fixing will help businesses and families. Need to compete in education — China had a space launch and space walk, our kids have to keep pace and college is affordable. Rebuilding infrastructure — bridges, but also broadband. Electricity grid for alternative energy. Need to eliminate progams that don’t work.

McCain — have to cut spending! Obama most liberal record in US Senate. Obama laughs. Oppose ethanol subsidies. Return in defense spending — do away with cost-plus contracts, do fixed cost contracts. But defense spending is vital.  I know how to do that. Fought the Boeing-DoD contract, we fixed it, killed it, folks in prison over it. Know how to do it. Examine every agency in govt and eliminate doing their job.

Neither suggesting major changes? Obama — some things will have to be delayed. Energy investment a big project, but may need to do slower, or not all components we want to do. McCain right about cuts, but — $15bn in subsidies to private insurers for Medicare, a giveaway to those insurers, due to lobbyists. Have to change the culture. “Liberal” means opposing Bush policies — bu have also talked Tom Coburn to set up list of spending.

Moderator trying to get big ways of effecting presidency. McCain — spending freeze on all but defense, VA, “several vital issues.” Obama — that’s a hatchet, not a scalpel. Early childhood education. Spending $10bn a month in Iraq when they have a surplus — need to look at bringing that war to a close. McCain — $700bn over to other nations who don’t like us, terrorism. Need offshore development, safe storage of nuclear fuel. If we build new nukes, it will make lots of jobs — and improves climate change issues.

Moderator — can you acknowledge it’s going to have an effect, a major effect? Obama — no doubt it will affect us, even if we get it all back (Roosevelt example) — but short term won’t see money for a while, and slowing economy, less tax revenue. Tough decisions — but need to know what our values are, and who we’re fighting for — $300bn in tax cuts for folks who don’t need, and leaving out health care, we’re making a bad decision.

McCain — be sure we’re not handing health care of federal govt, as in Obama’s plan. Need to cut spending. Obama has new spending. Let’s cancel some of those. We can adjust spending around to take care of our veterans and other needed programs. Healthy economy with low taxes is best recipe for economic recovery — spending restraint. We’re in this trouble today because spending is out of control, and we owe China a lot, and I’ve fought against wasteful spending for a long time.

Obama — it’s been your president who you agree with, spending, deficits, and you’ve voted for his budgets — so saying you’re going to lead on cutting spending and do things that haven’t happened in last 8 yrs. McCain — repeats Miss Congeniality line — have opposed Administration on a bunch of things, torture, Gitmo. Independent and maverick of the Senate, and I have a good maverick partner now.

New question. Lessons of Viet Nam. What are the lessons of Iraq? McCain — you cannot have a failed strategy to have you nearly lose a conflict. War was mishandled. Went to Iraq in 2003 and said needed a change in strategy, more troops. Finally came up with Petraeus and the Surge — has succeeded, winning. Will come home with victory and honor. Withdrawal due to counter-insurgency. We will see a stable ally and fledgling democracy, vs. increased Iranian influence, sectarianism, a wider war we might have to come back to. Petraeus and the troops have succeeded.

Obama — Fundamental difference with McCain — should we have gone in the first place. Stood up when it was risky to do so. Didn’t know too much, and because we hadn’t finished Afghanistan, Iraq would be a distraction. Bush and McCain had a different vision. $600bn so far, 4K dead, 30K wounded, and al Quaeda is stronger than any time since 2001. $10bn a month, when they have a surplus, our economy is stressed, we’re having to borrow. Will not hesitate to use military force to keep us safe, but need to use wisely.

McCain — the next president has to address issue of when and how we leave. Obama was wrong on the Surge. Obama never went to Iraq, never met with Petraeus. Has never had a hearing even though his committee oversees NATO. 

Obama — proud of Joe Biden and foreign relations committee — issues of Afgahnistan and Iraq don’t go thorugh Obama’s committee. Violence is reduced due to the sacrifice of our troops and their families — that’s a tactic to contain the damage of the prevoius 4 years of mismanagement of war. McCain said it would be quick and easy, we knew were the WMDs were, we woudl be seen as liberators, that Shia and Sunni wouldn’t be violent. Who is best equipped to make decisions about how to use our military on next conflict.

McCain doesn’t understand difference between a tactic and a strategy. In Baghdad two 4ths of July ago — celebration of guys re-upping. Talked with troops. “Let us win.” Surge is winning. Obama is refusing to admit we’re winning. There is progress there, and a strategy on how to clear an area. Peace and prosperity — it’s not a tactic, it’s a strategy, and we’ll do the same in Afghanistan. And Obama voted to cut off funds for the troops.

Obama — McCain opposed funding for troops with legislatoin that had a time table. Obama opposed when it was open-ended. Difference was on the time table. The strategic question for the president is not whether we’re using a particular approach within the country, but whether the conflict itself is wise. Afghanistan — need more troops. McCain said we were successful in Afghanistan. But we can’t be successful there if we don’t end this Iraq war responsibly and in phases — 16 months. Commanders in Afghanistan say we don’t have enough troops. 

McCain says Obama’s plan is dangerous. Obama says no, that’s not true. Both Petraeus and bin Laden say Iraq is the central battleground. Oh, and Obama wanted them out last spring. And he was surprised by its success. Can’t snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with Obama’s plan

Afghanistan. More US troops? How many? When? Obama — yes, saying it for a year, as soon as possible. Commanders on the ground say it’s critical. Taliban feeling emboldened. 2-3 added brigades from Iraq (4x the troops) (slams on the Iraq war decision) to Afghanistan — a *strategic* mistake. Central front in Afghanistan. Need to press the Afghan govt to support people, stop poppy trade, deal with Pakistan. Bush/McCain have been giving Pakistan money, and they haven’t followed through.

McCain — won’t make mistake where we abandoned Afghanistan after we helped Afghanistan to force back the Soviets. Aiding Pakistan — are we prepared to cut off aid to them? No, then don’t threaten it. You don’t say out loud you’ll send troops into Pakistan; you work with them. Waziristan — tribal. Not just more troops, but need similar strategies, need to help the Pakistanis to get allegiance of the people there. But we need to get the Pakistan govt to work with us. But Genl Petraeus will save us all. Lots of troops there already, though we need more, but it’s also a strategy.

Obama — never said would attack Pakistan. Said if we have bin Laden in our sights, and Pakistan cannot do anything, we should take him out. Does McCain disagree? Esp with sabre rattling against Iran and N Korea. Can’t just be on the defensive, or we need to make some decisions — the strategy has been to coddle Musharif and alienated the Pakistani population by supporting “our dictactor” — and they weren’t even going after al Quaeda. That will change as president.

McCain — Obama doesn’t understand that Musharif was dealing with a failed state. “Bomb Iran”? Ronald Reagan was an idol of mine — but McCain stood against him in going into Lebanon. Supported Iraq I. Supported Bosnia against other GOP people. Supported actions into Kosovo. Opposed change from peace-keeping to peace-making in Somalia — see, I have a record in being involved in decisions of sending our kids into danger. Touching anecdote about a mom who lost her son, wear a bracelet, make sure death was not in vain.  More anecdotes. More anecdotes. I know what war is like, where an army was defeated through no fault of its own. We will win this one, unlike Viet Nam.

Obama — I have a bracelet, too. That mom asked me that another mother goes through the same thing. Soldiers don’t die in vain, because they are obeying the CinC. The next president needs to make those good judgments about whether we’re keeping our country safe. We took our eye off of Afghanistan and the folks who did 9-11, and we’re facing defeat *in Afghanistan*. And McCain was saying we could muddle through in Afghanistan, the central front on terror.

McCain — why did Obama never go to Afghanistan? I’ve been there. I’ve traveled there. I know what our needs are. We need the new strategy. But if we suffer defeat in Iraq if we adopt a set date for withdrawal, it will have an effect.

New question — threat from Iran. McCain — If Iran acquires nukes, an existential threat to Israel and other countries in region. We cannot allow a second holocaust. What I’ve proposed for a long time — a league of democracies. Russians are blocking UN Security Council. So LoD — common values, common ideals, economic power. Sanctions on Iranians. Their economy is lousy due to lousy govt, so with the French, Brit, Germans, can affect Iranian behavior. But the Iranians are continuing on the path to nukes. But they are also putting lethal IEDs in Iraq, training Iraqi insurgents, and Republican Guard as terrorists (Obama coddled them).

Obama — Correction: Republican Guard is a terrorist organization, but the legislation would try to broaden the Iraq mandate to deal with Iran, and what has made Iran stronger is the war in Iraq, because we cleared away their enemy. Their influence has grown. Policy of last 8 years haven’t worked. Nuclear Iran would be intolerable — threats, plus arms race. We need tougher sanctions, but can’t without Russia and China. But also need tough, direct diplomacy — doesn’t work to try and “punish” by not talking to them.

McCain — Obama has said he’s sit down with folks without preconditions. We’re going to legitimize those evil people, and reward them for doing what they’ve done? Reagan wouldn’t sit down with Russians until Gorbachev, or Nixon’s trip to China preceded with Kissinger visiting. Will sit down with anyone but need preconditions. Obama said “without preconditions.”

Obama — Reserve the right to meet with anyone at a time and place of his choosing if it will keep America safe. Brought up bipartisan history of direct diplomacy. Kissinger said we should meet with Iran without preconditions. What it means is that we don’t do which is to say that without agreeing what we say you need to do, we won’t talk with you. Was called naive before on this, but Bush is following same course. By showing willingness to have those talks, it strengthens our position. Didn’t help to cut off talks with N Korea — when we reengaged, we’ve made some (rocky) progress. Bush Administration and McCain advisors say it’s important to do.  Spain (Zapatero!)

McCain — Kissinger didn’t approve of face-to-face between presidential levels. But without preconditions, you’re sitting down with someone really nasty and you legitimize their evil comments — not naive, dangerous. North Korea is a crazy place, and they keep breaking agreements — trust but verify.

Obama — “without preconditions” means we don’t go in demanding problems be solved before talks. Even Bush Administration realizes it hasn’t worked.

McCain — Kissinger is a friend of mine, and would be fascinated by this, and I’ve known him for 35 years, and presidential top-level stuff is wrong.

New question — Russia … how is the relationship? Competitor, partner, etc? Obama — Georgia shows a resurgent Russia is a threat to regional security. The next president has to follow through on the cease-fire, they have to do X, Y, Z. Need a unified alliance. Affirm new democracies in the region, support and in solidarity. And for countries like Georgia like Ukraine, should be able to join NATO. But can’t be in a Cold War posture. Nuclear proliferation, have done bipartisan work . You deal with Russia based on national security interests.

McCain — Obama was naive over Russia in saying that both sides need to show restraint. KGB-run government. Looked into Putin’s eyes — KGB. Georgia behavior is not acceptible — need to bolster allies. Everything to do with energy — pipeline, controlling energy into Europe. I’ve been to Tblisi. Regional concerns over Russian threats. Russia needs to understand we will support Georgia and Ukraine into NATO. And they are in violation of their cease-fire. I’ve been there! Want to work with the Russian,s but they should behave and accept international norms. And watch Ukraine, Crimea, Sevastopol, and Ukrainian politics.

Obama — McCain and I agree. Disagree over our disagreement over Russia’s entry into Georgia. Called for rebuilding of Georgian economy to support that democracy. Russia: #1, we need to anticipate these problems. Warned Administration about Russian peace-keepers in Georgian territory. #2 Energy. Russia is resurgent because of petro-dollars, that is why we need an energy strategy, including domestic production … but we can’t drill out of the problem. Solar, wind, biodiesel, nukes, clean coal. I have a plan. McCain’s record — voted against alternative energy. 

McCain — I’m in favor of solar. Obama is against nuclear reprocessing. Offshore drilling is important, and it’s a bridge, we can help temporarily relieve our energy requirements. Supported Nunn-Luger. 

Obama — Never objected to nuclear waste, but McCain … okay go on to next question.

Another 9-11 attack? McCain — we are safer, but not safe. Have worked across the aisle. Lieberman and I needed a commission to investigate and fix. Administration opposed us. Families of 9-11 helped us get it passed. We have gotten most of commission recommendations, bipartisan, working together. We have a long way to go in intellience, humint, trained interrogators (so no torture!), need to work with our allies and I know our allies. We are safer, but we have a long way to go. And because of those recommendations, a huge re-org of government, and they’re doing a great job. Need to do a better job along our borders.

Obama — we are safer in some ways. Airport security, but a long way to go. Hardening chemical sites, transit, ports. Threat not a nuclear missile, but a suitcsase. Nuclear proliferation is a huge threat. We are spending billions on missile defense — which we need, but we are not spending enough on non-proliferation. Also need to focus on al Quaeda — can’t just look at Iraq, which means Afghanistan and Pakistan. Cooperation with allies. Important to understand that how we are perceived in the world is critical to how we are assisted. Restoring our standing in the world (and kudos to McCain on the torture issue) — it’s going to be an effort to be done.

McCain — Obama, missile defense, ending Cold War. Obama doesn’t get it that failure in Iraq will encourage al Quaeda. Loss of sacrifice in Iraq if we followed Obama’s plan for specific dates for withdrawal, and Petraeus says we can’t do that. The central issue of our time.

Obama — This adminstration has been solely focused on Iraq. Bin Laden is still out there. Al Quaeda is resurgent. Challenges with China — borrowing money, and they are acting around the world while we have been absent beause we’ve been obsessed with Iraq. And we;re spending $10bn a month, which means we cannot spend money on things we need. If economy declines, it impacts our security. Need to support VA, but we don’t have the money. We need a broader strategic vision.

McCain — I’ve been involved in 20 years of national crises. Obama doesn’t have the experience and knowledge. Obama is stubborn like the current Administration by not acknowledging that the Surge has succeeded. Vets know I will support them. I have the ability, knowledge, background to keep the country secure. Don’t need on the job training.

Obama — closing point. Father came from Kenya — in the 60s wanted to come to college in the US, because there was no other country on Earth as admired and inspiring as the US. Our standing in the world now is not the same. (Looking at camera) Part of what the next president needs to do is show that we’re going to invest in how ordinary people can live out their dreams.

McCain — When I came home from prison, and veterans being abused made me sad. As pres, know how to heal wounds of war, and deal with enemies and friends.

Obama more vocal in greeting Mccain — and went over with his wife to meet with McCain and his wife.

And so it goes …