In brief: Wow.
In not-so-brief (and with spoilers) …
Jackson, in adopting LotR to the big screen, and assuming he didn’t want to make it a 20 hour epic (as though that would even be enough) was faced with ongoing decisions as to where to be faithful to the book, where to make a watchable movie. He’s trodden that line pretty damned well, in my opinion. Where RotK (and the trilogy as a whole) falters, it’s equally where Jackson has been overly-faithful to the book, or, less often, where he’s had to trim to make the thing fit in the time and audience available. Similarly, where he succeeds spectacularly, it’s both in being faithful to his vision of the work, to its myriad details, and where he’s worked around some pacing-killers that simply couldn’t be included.
So, like everyone else, I come out of the movie slavering for the extended edition. I want to see the exit interview of Saruman, for one thing. I want any number of other details that I’m sure are in there.
And, like most people, the parts I’m least pleased with remain the Arwen plot lines, which still feel tacked on, and which cover nobody with glory.
On the other hand, I realize that the movie would be weaker without the Arwen bits. And I realize both that ending TTT or beginning RotK with the Saruman scene would be horribly clunky.
Like most people, I can appreciate that the movie seems to “end” forever — while realizing that (a) that’s how the damned books read, and (b) that’s even cutting out some major bits, the Scouring of the Shire. This latter episode works well in the books, but I suspect would have fallen flat on film — after the grand epic of the Battle of Pellenor, anything would. In many ways the long letting-go of the characters fits in with the Tolkien theme of the passing of an age, of the indelible marks of sacrifice, of how time changes all things, sometimes clearly, other times subtly.
There are any number of other things I’d have loved to see, which almost certainly aren’t in the extended edition. I lament the watered-down version of the Gimli/Legolas relationship, for one. I understand why it’s not in there, and might even agree, but it’s still missed, wistfully. Ditto the madness of Denethor being tied to his use of the Palantir of Minas Tirith (and its role in the final conflagration). Indeed, the palantiri get short shrift, though Tolkien uses them at various key points, but, again, I can also understand why Jackson did so.
Just like the forces of Good could not war against Sauron without losing something essential, so, too, you can’t make a LotR movie without a similar sacrifice.
I missed the relationship between Merry and Theoden.
In some ways, this installment is both more and less satisfying than the others. The events are so monumental, so epic, that the personalities are lost, replaced by powerful but less personal archetypes. Legolas gets a mere handful of lines (hell, for once, Gimli has more). Merry and Pippin emote and act, but more as swept along by the plot, less as the people we’ve seen before. Sam and Frodo turn into powerful representations of the Faithful, Loving Servant and the Noble, Tormented Savior.
Gollum remains Gollum. I don’t know if it’s ironic or fabulous that I’ve become jaded to that marvelous CGI creation.
Some great bits:
- Shelob. The whole Shelob thing. The webbing looked a bit odd, but Shelob was perfect.
- I very much liked what they did with Theoden.
- Nazgul are scary. Really scary. Thank you.
- Grond!
- The fall of Barad-Dur.
- Eagles!
- Mordor. Actually, the appearance and plotting of the whole sequence from the stair of Cirith Ungol on. Perfection.
- The scene at the Crack of Doom was fabulous — and, for those who missed it, eerily echoed the scene in the first film between Elrond and Isildur at the same spot.
- While there were aspects of how Denethor was handled I didn’t care for, the byplay between him and Faramir (especially if you’ve seen TTT Extended) was fabulous.
- Glad to see Gimli get more air time. And have it not all be humorous.
- Minas Tirith? Perfect. Grey Havens? Perfect.
Some slight faltering:
- The vanishing of Saruman. I have no idea how to keep the pacing going in the film with Saruman’s final (!) appearance, but having him just drop out of the narrative at this point seems awkward. Of course, I also rue that the “Saruman trying to set himself up as a rival to Sauron, not just his lackey” theme was lost from the trilogy.
- It’s not enough to have a massive battle and siege. We had that last time. This time need to have lots more trolls and oliphaunts and stuff like that. I guess that’s okay, but it felt slightly artificial.
- Gandalf can rise from the dead, hold off balrogs, and drive away flying Nazgul, but he can’t ignite a big stack of wood? Gimme a break.
- Gandalf clubbing down Denethor with his staff just felt tacky.
- The “Arwen’s life is tied to the Ring” thang didn’t work. At all. Unnecessary, even more than the whole Arwen plot line to begin with.
- It may take a rewatching of the whole film, but Aragorn’s progression from Ranger to King feels sketchy, not entirely convincing. I’m left unclear as to why and how he decides to take on the mantle of kingship after having fled from it for so long. Sure, I can drag it out of the bits and pieces (particularly ironically in the first film), but it doesn’t stand as epically self-evident.
- The killing of the Witch King somehow just didn’t do it for me the way I’d expected. It’s a huge moment in the book. Here it felt too drawn out and too quick, all at the same time. And there was no indication of its effect on the Bad Guys.
- After a nice setup in TTT, Eowyn’s role seemed far less convincing this time out. Just part of the rush of the film, I suppose, and maybe something the Extended Edition will help with.
- The charge of the Rohirrim seemed to have way too much of an effect. They remained a tiny force against the armies of Mordor.
- Eomer has sort of a wasted role. Pity, that.
- Aragorn winning the day solely through the intervention of the armies of the dead, vs. having gathered other Gondorian forces, makes it a cheap one-off trick. I don’t necessarily expect Imrahil to show up, but some rallying of the rest of Gondor would have been a true sign of Kingship.
- The Gondorian forces come across most of the time as frightened sheep, getting appropriately slaughtered. Granted, it’s a stressful time, but … The one exception is everyone’s willingness to charge pell-mell to certain death under Faramir’s command. Stirring, but annoying nonetheless.
- I’m presuming in the Extended Edition we’ll get more about the White Tree, and how it goes from dead piece of wood to flowering branches. (I mean, I know the story. But I can see where some folks would be confused.)
- Minas Morgul — eh. It looked like it was a nasty place to begin with, as opposed to a good place that was taken over and corrupted. The brief glimpses we caught in FotR, when the Nine Riders set forth, were better.
- When Sauron “emotes” through the movement of his eye back and forth, the pupil widening, etc., it felt cartoony. I have no idea how I would have done better.
- Sam didn’t really seem to feel the burden of the Ring while he bore it. We saw the indecision in giving it back, but no mention later (as in the book) about how carrying it for even that brief time had an effect.
- The Black Gate still feels too small.
- The last stand before the Black Gate had a force of the West that seemed far too tiny. And no Mouth of Sauron! And, “For Frodo!”?
- Galadriel felt more like she was on drugs this time than that she was mystic. Her smile was both winning and a bit frightening.
- It would have been nice to have seen (and we doubtless will in the Extended Edition) more of life in the Shire after the Fellowship’s return. Sam got married, but what did Merry and Pippin do? A few sentences of voice-over would have taken care of this. It made things feel even more rushed, even as they dragged along.
I’m sure there’s more, in both categories, that I’ll add in over time (in the comments).
The above critiques are mere sidelights, though, like saying, “Gosh, that was a fabulous wedding, too bad about that bit of traffic we went through on the way.” I definitely want to see it again, and definitely want to get the Extended Edition (boo-yah!) as soon as possible.
I don’t know that I agree that the various actors deserve Oscars; the performances are strong, but few are without flaws, or strong enough on their own to warrant that distinction. But Jackson absolutely deserves something respectable for this incredible, multi-part epic, that not only confounds repeated predictions that it couldn’t be done, but does so brilliantly, and humanly.
Good movie, but too overtly political.
Jacob Levy comments. He echoes dissatisfaction with the Army of the Dead. “If there is an invulnerable army running amok, all the rest of the sacrifices of that day seem silly and pointless. Why do Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli bother to run out and risk their necks instead of waiting for the Dead to slaughter every last orc?” Aside from nobility and bloodlust, that is. Further, given their unstoppable nature, should Aragorn actually let them off the hook there at Minas Tirith, or retain them in the service of Gondor until Sauron is overthrown; his “contract” with them seems rather open-ended, and given all that is at stake, it seems a foolish gesture.
Granted, the armies of the dead make for some fun effects (the initial shock of their attack, seeing them in the background dragging down an oliphaunt), but it it a bit tawdry, in the face of all the other sacrifices (and stunt-climbing by Legoas).
Thought of another way, if Aragorn had been a half hour earlier, how many thousands of Gondorians and Rohirrim would still be alive, since it’s clear that the army of the dead is far stronger than anything on the field at the time.
What did you think of the very begining…the corrupting of smeagal?
Everyone is raving about the beacons. I thought the beacons were cool, but not that cool. To each their own geekiness, I guess.
Good, canonical stuff. I saw one reviewer who felt it was an unnecessary repeat of Gollum’s past, but I think it further humanizes him, and makes it clear how far he has fallen (and how far Frodo may fall). I would have been willing to have seen it take a minute or two less, if it freed up a couple of minutes for another scene, though.
Hard to believe it was only 3½ hours. It went by much faster. Unless you had to pee (I intentionally kept the liquids to a minimum that morning).
Again, because it should be said twice: Grond!
I agree that I wanted to see the Witch-King’s death have a major impact on the battle… the Nazgul flee in disarray… something.
I think the ‘for Frodo’ thing was meant to be … Well, you hear the Voice whispering to Aragorn right there, and then he turns around with this odd, somewhat mad look in his eyes, and i think you’re supposed to worry for just a second that he’s going to turn… break… something. For him to instead say something that clearly shows that his loyalty lies still with that original Fellowship was probably meant to mean… something.
Re: the Eye.
I have to confess I’ve never liked the Eye as a physical object… as something that could theoretically be rained on or something — I liked better the idea in FotR that it was something Frodo perceived with the Ring on. The new activity of the thing… movement, as it were, made it a bit worse for me. I’d always pictured (and will continue to picture) Sauron’s presense as a sort of Wrinkle In Time-like brooding darkness.
I don’t envy PJ’s having to come up with a visualization (movies being a visual medium) to represent the Eye of Sauron. It’s something that The Less Seen the Better — but it’s something that probably had to be seen.
From the production sketches in TTT EE discs, it looks like at one point there was an intent to have Sauron still embodied, on a balcony up at the top of the tower, with the Eye imagery being a manifestation of his magic. Which would have been still hokier.
I’m not sure what my imagery of the Eye was, but it was huge and terrible and lurked deep and all-piercing within the shadows of Barad Dur, not up on top like a giant restaurant sign. EAT … AT … SAURON’S …
Another plot element I could have done without was the Nasty Leader of the Orcs Who Gets Badly Killed by Good Guys. We had one with the Uruk-hai, we had one at Helm’s Deep, and we had one at Pellenor.
The trolls were pretty cool — and using them for shock troops behind (say it with me) Grond! was naturally clever. About Hanthor-sized, I think …
In reviewing the trailer (to put to rest the debate here), I note at least one scene not in the theatrical release, Merry swearing service to Theoden. Which makes me hope a bit more of that will make the EE.
Also, a shot of Eomer mourning (presumably) Theoden.
And, now, to the debate in that earlier post.
1. I was incorrect. That is, indeed, Aragorn giving his St Crispin’s Day speech, before the Black Gate.
2. But the pictures associated with it in the trailer are mostly not from that scene, but from the Rohirrim arrayed to charge at Pelanor.
Not sure what that proves, but …
Viz Arwen’s sudden swoonyiness as Frodo ventures deeper into Mordor. Pulling together from a number of sites I get this:
Back in FotR, Arwen is seeking to heal Frodo from the wound of the Nazgul blade. “What grace is given me, let it pass to him,” she says. “Let him be spared. Save him.”
As Frodo passes deeper into darkness in Mordor — and under the influence of the Ring — is it any wonder then that Arwen is takes ill? If she has bound her grace — her (immortal) life to him, it makes a great deal of sense.
Or is that way too subtle?
(And, by the way, I love that the wound from the Nazgul blade increasingly pains Frodo during the journey to Mordor. It’s a nice piece of “work” that adds to the richness of the tale.)
Your Arwen point at the end here, Dave, is the only explanation I could come up with as well. Since she gave her grace to him, her fate was bound to the Ringbearer, and therefore the Ring.
The Mouth of Sauron was filmed, including showing the mithril shirt. I think that comes right before Aragorn shouts “For Frodo!” and makes for a better explanation for Pippin’s tears and Gandalf’s despairing look.
I’ve seen caps of the Houses of Healing, specifically Aragorn and Faramir, so I know that’s there, and likely in the EE. I’ve also heard that Éomer is mourning Gamling there, not Théoden, or his sister as I’d first thought.
Ah. Well, as everyone else is saying, “I can’t wait for the Extended Edition!”
A round-up of cameos here, including Peter Jackson’s.
For all the little nits, it’s still breathtaking. The unfilmable books are no longer unfilmable.
The Rohirrim were far and away the best part, in my opinion. I know we’ll get the good stuff in the extended version…
I don’t know if I can say the Rohirrim were “best,” but they were certainly the best fleshed-out humans.
As I look back over the trilogy, there’s so much I’d like to see more of that we did see (the elves, for example; Rivendell will never be anything else again) and so much I’d like to see more of that we saw only a little (the dwarves).
Hell, I’d pay $10/year just to get a regular annual fix …
For me I would have liked to have had the Death of Denethor to be like it was in the Book. In the same order that it was done, and not out of order like it was in the movie.
Eowyn’s killing of the Witch King should have had more of a impact. It’s was one of the best scene’s in the book. and it should have been treated as such in the movie. Hopefully there will be five or so minutes added to this scene for the Platinum edition.
Yeah, each of the four big blows should have been given their place: unexpected Rohirrim, army of the Dead, South Gondorians and the King rather than the expected Corsair reinforcements, and every orc, troll and Ringwraith in the host losing it when the Witch King bites it.
Will someone either post or e-mail(signet00@hotmail.com)those are zeros an explanation of the end of the movie?i am very troubled by this and cannot rid my mind of it.Please reply.Thank you.
Andy
Sauron was destroyed when the ring was destroyed.
Aragorn married Arwen and was crowned King.
The keepers of the “Three” given to the Elves (Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandolf), two of the three Ring Barers (Sam Leaves in about fifty years time, after Rose dies), and the one other living Maiar besides Gandolf (Radagast the Brown), Leave the Grey Havens for “the West”. The West is the “undying Lands” where the Elves came from to Middle-Earth. Think a dream like world devoid of excitement.
This is the very simple version of the Mythos of the Tolkienen Universe.
With the end of the Third Age, the time of the Elves and their magic is over. Thus, the last of them (in the movie, at least) depart into the Uttermost West to the, um, “blessed isles” (name escapes me) that the elves get to go to under their arrangement with the deities of Tolkiens mythos.
Bilbo, and Frodo, as bearers of the One Ring, get to go, too, since they have been too deeply touched/wounded by its magic. There they will find peace and healing. Indeed, even the prospect of this seems to perk up Bilbo, and Frodo gets off one last beatific smile before vanishing belowdecks (?) with the rest.
In the books, Sam, too (as a brief Ringbearer) sails to the West, after Rosie dies. And Gimli accompanies Legolas to the West after Aragorn dies.
Andy PT. 2
Here is a WIKI on Tolkien and middle-earth with a fairly good http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi “target=”new”>FAQ. In case the above response causes only more question on your part.
We begin to blur movies and books here, but …
The Three belonged to Galadriel, Elrond, and Cirdan. The latter was the boatwright of the Elves, and basically ran the Grey Havens. When Gandalf arrived, he passed on his ring to Gandalf, as having more use for it than he.
Cirdan doesn’t show up in the movies (except in the brief prolog of the Ring poem), nor does Radagast.
Their passing finally removes all the known rings from Middle-Earth, their having lost all or most of their power when the One Ring was thrown down.
In a further trivial deviation between books and movies, Celeborn (Galadriel’s hubby) doesn’t pass into the West with her in the written LotR. Lorien abandoned, he hangs out in Rivendell with Elrond’s sons before eventually Departing.
And, as far as I can tell from various sources, Cirdan both accompanies the Ring-folk on the ship from the Grey Havens, and is later back there again, hanging out until all the other elvenkind depart. Which is, I suspect, far more detail than anyone is interested in.
Okay, in relationship to Sauron as Giant Neon Eye, discussed above, see here, here, and here.
There are indications that Jackson did not necessarily mean for the Eye to be Sauron, just the manifestation of his power, dominion, and gaze. For one thing, there are production sketches of a balcony below the big eyeball (visible on the actual tower) where Sauron would stand. For another thing, well, it’s not clear why a giant eyeball would need a giant castle.
Still, the perception (esp. without the palantir subplot) is that the Jackson Sauron, rent of his body after the the great battle, is simply a giant eyeball of malevolent magic. And, to a large degree, that works. Indeed, the less human the Big Evil Guys are, the better; the Eyeball’s emoting makes it somehow less of a threat (as do the Witch King’s speeches).
Thank ya’ll very much for answering my question. I appreciate your time and information. I understand the ending much better now. I believed before that they were simply going to death or maybe another adventure…I guess every new experience or place is a new adventure come to think of it. Well thanks again. 🙂
You’re more than welcome. We’re more than pleased to geek out over Tolkien lore here.
One interesting item I picked up in my reading was that Bilbo and Frodo (and Sam and Gimli) don’t get immortality out of going off to Valinor, just healing. They, unlike the elves, do eventually die, since that’s the Gift of Men (which Hobbits qualify as for this purpose, though I don’t recall what happens to dwarvish spirits after death in Tolkien’s mythology).